The Lost Generation – MNGOP Heading For Big Loses This Cycle
In my previous post I pointed out how I was upset about what MNGOP CD4 Deputy Chair Nathan Hanson wrote about Col. Joe Repya, our military, and veterans. Now that I am home, have ranted, rested, proofed, revised, and reflected (see I am learning) let me get into this a little bit and explain why I think the Republican Party of Minnesota is going to continue to circle the drain.
Repya wrote an Op-Ed yesterday in the PiPress about why he is leaving the Republican Party of Minnesota. Now I can’t say i agree 100% with his points, but I think it is more right then wrong.
What chapped my hide and has me livid is that Nathan Hanson, the CD4 Republican’s Deputy Chair left a comment that is just more proof that this party is absolutely screwed.
I am Deputy Chair of the Fourth Congressional District and one of the newer anti-war Republican activists. It’s difficult for words to describe how happy I am that you are leaving our Party. The roots of your “neconservative” philosophy lie in Straussian Trotzkyite Communism. “Corporate money” influencing our Party? Nothing compared to the damage your military industrial complex (that Eisenhower warned us about) has wreaked on our Party and our Country.
I hope you will find a happy home among your fellow communists. Your days of endless illegal wars and military industrial complex domination of our party are over.
Obama is ramping up his War in Afghanistan and continues to illegally bomb Pakistan. Perhaps you can join him to satiate your bloodlust.
Again, this is the Deputy Chair of the CD4 Republicans who is attacking a veteran, our military, and anyone who believes in a strong national defense. Sure there is room for debate on specifics, but that is not what Dep. Chair Hanson decided to do. Nope, he went right for the jugular and crossed a line as far as I am concerned.
Now this is important to me because Hanson is one of the Ron Paul people who got in bed with Sutton and Brodkorb. He’s part of the group of people who slit their own wrists by backing the people who had at one time tried to keep them out of the party.
And now Hanson is praising people for leaving the party and insulting them on their way out. Now where have I heard such things before……?
Folks, this is why the party is absolutely screwed.
You see, I was an early skeptic of some of the Ron Paul people. Sure, I got to know some of them and was pleasantly proven wrong. But in the last 2 months, I saw others and well, I hate to say it but I think I was right. Some of them, Mr. Hanson makes it clear, are simply here to take the party over and insert their own doctrine over us or cheerlead our exit if we refuse to bend down and abandon what we believe the Republican party supports.
One of the major reasons I joined the Republican party was because of its support for the military and defense of the nation. You see, there is a party that hates the military and thinks what they do is illegal, immoral, and wrong… that would be the Democrats. So for someone who thinks the real heros go to work with the chance of not coming home each and every day, the Republican party was the only option. (And yes, limited government is part of it, but let’s stay focused on the point raised by Dep. Chair Hanson)
It can be simply pointed out that only one member of Congress voted against the Iranian people who are trying to crawl out from under the iron fist of the totalitarian theocratic thugs who oppress them. That would be Rep. Ron Paul, the lone vote against Democracy in Iran, and inspiration to some who think he is like a God/prophet/unquestionable leader.
And then I think back to the end of the State convention in Rochester and remember the woman who introduced a motion or statement about how Karl Rove should be tried for war crimes and all the good feelings of how maybe we could have bridged the gap since then and united the party are thrown out the window.
A high level officer in the Republican party cannot do what Mr. Hanson did. He is entitled to his opinion, but what he gave was an opinion that had to come with his official title, hence, he has to go.
This is Sutton & Brodkorb’s first big test. Someone they owe their victory to, crossed a line that requires their action. That action, in my opinion – oh yes I get one too – is his resignation from leadership.
I’m sorry folks, but if the Republican party is going to have senior officers who run around insulting veterans and throwing people out of the party for their support for our troops and a strong national defense, well the party is dead and not worth trying to save. And when they use their position and title to do so, well, the exodous begins with me.
No, you’re right, I hold absolutely no official role in the party anymore, but the behavior of people like Hanson during the leadership elections made me turn down chances to stay involved after I was ousted by similar Ron paul people. And if this is the kind of leadership that is going to be exerted, I may pull back even more.
Rumors are flying around about the real intentions of some of the Ron Paul people. It is not reforming the party and getting it back on track, nope they are going to take out anyone who, as Hanson points out, believes in supporting out troops and military or doesn’t believe in their rigid ideology, or come to the revolution with them. Some are even hearing about plans that they can do better the Congresswoman Bachmann, further proof some of the people are playing Texas Holdem with an Uno deck. We have some new BPOU and CD leaders who haven’t got a clue on how the party works or winning elections, yet they are wasting their time running around and insulting swaths of the base while ignoring what their District needs to do to win.
So you see, the problem is people like me just don’t give a damn about the party anymore. We poured a lot of blood sweat and tears into the party over our years trying to do everything to win elections in the sprint and then turning our focus to reforms. But here come a bunch of disrespectful know nothings who cast blame with broad brushes and have purged the party of many good workers, and all because they didn’t appear on the RP list.
I’m not seeing much to make me think that the party is any better today than it was before the recent BPOU, CD, and statewide leadership elections. Sure there are some upgrades, but they are isolated and far between, and the downgrades may outnumber them. I think of the party as a generational group. Every two years there is a chance to change the tides, sometimes you have a few cycles where no progress is made, but in others you see major sweeping turnover.
Well we had a lot of turnover in the party this last cycle, but I am fearing it is only going to end up in worse shape then before.
Hence, my reference to the current crop of MNGOP leaders as the Lost Generation. I want to be wrong that things will be worse, but I haven’t seen any evidence to make me …. well, I did see evidence, but then people like Hanson decided to play for keeps.
Wasted time at Committee meetings – which seem to be thought of as debate club rather then political campaign meetings – is the new norm. Strategy? Nope, instead we have people who feel they are the only ones who know anything and are throwing out everything and everyone for the sake of what and who they want. Even if what they want is a failed plan or out of the bounds of the party structure or scope.
The Republican party is about electing Republicans and by doing so about passing good center right legislation. You can’t have one with out the other, and you can’t do either when some people are trying to change the fundamentals of the party. A party many of them never even cared about until they saw the weakness. Some seem to be exploiting it in order to mold the party into what they wanted it to be, despite the objections of those who came before them.
So again, it is up to Sutton and Brodkorb to fix this mess. They engaged people like Hanson in order to win. They empowered them in order to win. They let the rabid people out of the bag in order to win, and now look at what they have created. One of their biggest supporters is running around insulting veterans and conservative activists.
The true test of Sutton and Brodkorb’s leadership skills will be can they put the cat back in the bag?
I will still help the Republican candidates that I believe in. I’ll be driving my truck for Rep. Sanders and Congresswoman Bachmann this Saturday in Blaine. But beyond that I am simply on a case by case basis. I will need to see that the party really will represent my values and that the leaders, at all levels, share my beliefs. Right now I am not holding my breath. I do hope I am wrong, as it would be a shame for the Republican party to be taken over by a bunch of anti-veteran anti-military punks. Oh yeah, punks. I have no respect for people who treat our troops that way, no matter what party they claim to be part of.
So here the party is in arguably in serious electoral trouble with skeleton minorities in the state legislature, an open Governor seat to defend, statewide offices held by Democrats who abuse their power, and we have a feud going on in our own ranks where some people are more concerned about grudges and cleansing the party of anyone who didn’t embrace Ron Paul.
Some people say that Ron Paul was going to save the GOP, but right now I think he may destroy it. Revolutions usually don’t end up being one step reforms. Usually their is a turnover of power, but someone else has to step in and come up with a plan for the future that really works. I’m volunteering myself in the latter camp. I’m not going to find a different party, I’m just going to sit back and enjoy my life. I’ll watch and help where i feel comfortable, when i feel comfortable, but I just don’t feel the desire to do much more then that right now with people like Nathan Hanson in leadership saying such disgusting things about people like Repya and our military in general.
I’m not taking my ball and going home, the ball is in other people’s courts right now. Will they hit it back to me or commit an unforced error? Will the MNGOP of 2009-2010 be the Lost Generation?
Well, we might have some common ground. All I can say is that I’ve been repulsed by the “Ron Paul” people since the very day they popped up. I think they are dangerous and desctructive, and conservatives can gain nothing by accepting them.
If Tony Sutton has aligned himself with the Ron Paul people I’ll be extremely disappointed. I would not have expected that of him.
All I can say is that conservatives ceded the party to the Ron Paul people this year, sometimes willingly, and the party is going to be worse off for it.
As you are probably aware, I’m not too keen on the party right now either. But I’m a political person and I’ll continue to work in politics. I guess the biggest lesson I learned is that you can’t support everyone. You have to support those people and groups who you believe in and let other people believe in the rest. If a candidate gets on the ballot that isn’t supported by the Ron Paul people that I also trust myself, I’ll support the candidate. Otherwise, I may just volunteer for Paulsen next year. He’s a candiddate I can really trust.
Well, we might have some common ground. All I can say is that I’ve been repulsed by the “Ron Paul” people since the very day they popped up. I think they are dangerous and desctructive, and conservatives can gain nothing by accepting them.
If Tony Sutton has aligned himself with the Ron Paul people I’ll be extremely disappointed. I would not have expected that of him.
All I can say is that conservatives ceded the party to the Ron Paul people this year, sometimes willingly, and the party is going to be worse off for it.
As you are probably aware, I’m not too keen on the party right now either. But I’m a political person and I’ll continue to work in politics. I guess the biggest lesson I learned is that you can’t support everyone. You have to support those people and groups who you believe in and let other people believe in the rest. If a candidate gets on the ballot that isn’t supported by the Ron Paul people that I also trust myself, I’ll support the candidate. Otherwise, I may just volunteer for Paulsen next year. He’s a candiddate I can really trust.
I do not think all Ron Paul people are of the mold of Hanson. He’s just one of the most vocal. I have met some good and honest people along the way, but I have also crossed paths with some snakes who make Ron Carey look like a preacher.
Mr. Hansen needs to be removed. No question about it. To use a party office to take that swipe at Col. Repya (and, by extension, all those currently or formerly serving in the armed forces) is appalling.
I hope the good folks of CD4 consider taking action. He needs to go.
I don’t care how “big-tent” this party is. If Mr. Hansen is in it, there’s no room for me.
From what I have observed, there are really no “Ron Paul People” now. There are a couple of different organizations, some respected voices but clearly different people coalesce around different issues. For some it’s the classic libertarian issue of marijuana decriminalization and and end to the war on drugs. Others were heavily into the anti-war movement (which pretty much disappeared as a hot button issue by the last presidential election). Some are just frustrated fiscal conservatives who are a little more vocal about it, especially in the wake of the financial collapse and recession. And there is Craig Westover’s let’s get back to the constitution movement. Some of these agendas overlap of course, but it’s a question of emphasis. The fact that there was no single push by a group for either of the top candidates for the chair or deputy chair signals to me that “the movement” is going to have a broader and more diffuse effect on the party than a “revolutionary” change. The only thing that really bothers me about what’s going on is that a lot of this discussion is emotionally charged when it ought to be calm and reasonable. Denouncing people is drain circling behavior. Michelle Bachmann will be an interesting case because she is the closest to Ron Paul on the fiscal issues but supports the Iraq War and drives the libertarians nuts on social issues. At some point, all of us learn in politics that you can’t have it all and the best is the enemy of the good. There are some people who seem to think they can reprogram the computer and beat the test. We will see.
I am deeply disappointed to read Nathan Hanson’s remarks and agree he should resign. His comments revealed his character (or rather lack of), and I hope the 4th will take action on removing him. There’s room in the party for all opinions, but to publicly disparage a veteran and calling him names shows a remarkable lack of character and leadership. FAIL.
Despite this latest flap, I’m hopeful for a comeback. Thanks for helping Andy where you can. Many are suffering from burnout and I hope use this year to refresh and recharge. We need you.
And it’s posts like this that have me thinking about leaving the party as well.
It’s clear no matter how much work I do, that closed minded idiots like you will keep lumping me in with people who went along with a candidate for the ride.
Am I for limited government, sound economic policy, and a humble foreign policy?
You damn skippy. This does not make me, or Ron Paul a wacko.
But this us vs them mentality will cause more damage to the party than the “Ron Paul people” ever could.
You keep in mind the record caucus turnouts, and that in CD5 we have had records set for full committee meetings, subcommittees, etc.
So, yes. Lets throw the baby out with the bathwater.
You short sighted fools deserve your fate. It’s just too bad that you will drag the country with you, as there is no other solid opposition to the liberal agenda.
-Steve Rogers
Mr. Rogers, you are both right and wrong. To the degree the principles and policies espoused by Ron Paul and his followers, regardless of what they call themselves today, match with those of the large majority of other Republicans, you are right, and welcome to the Party. To the degree that each of you individually agrees, it is unfair to lump you in with those “Ron Paul people” who do not. But when someone who obviously does not agree with the rest of us, tries to take the rest of us in the wrong direction, and claims to be doing the “good work” of Dr. Ron Paul, then the rest of us are going to do some lumping, and it’s up to sane Ron Paul supporters to get the baby out of that filthy bathwater. You are wrong, because Republicans can be conservative without being doctrinaire Paulites, and we certainly can be opposed to liberals for any number of good reasons, without even being Republicans.
I think Mr. Hanson should concern himself less with tossing people out of the GOP, and more about electing a Republican to Congress from the 4th District. Starting only with the 1% of people who voted for Ron Paul for President, I would say he has a lot of work to do.
So let me see now – Dave Thompson/Dorthy Fleeming/Ed Matthews were the chosen slate for the Ron Paul bunch.
Take a look at the “liberty” folks – when one or two of their group said anything nice about Tony they were immediately attacked and called traitors by their own group.
Now that a few have gone off the rails – suddenly it was the Ron Paul people who got Sutton elected??? Give me a break.
But to Andy post – for months he has been complaining that the party leadership must “listen to the grass roots” and not have a command and control party but let the local party units be free and independent.
But now he thinks that the State Party should stop listening to the grass roots and get rid of an elected party leader?
So does that apply to everyone that they disagree with or just Ron Paul types?
I trust the good people of CD4 will take this matter in their own hands.
I would rather Tony and Mike worry more about helping the CD that actually have a chance of electing someone.
But in addition to Mr. Hanson, I am tired of the self righteous “you didn’t elect my guy so you are pick evil” types.
some Ron Paul supporters fall here – didn’t vote for Ron Paul so you must hate conservatives.
That included Criag Westover – Don’t agree with my resolution so you hate the constitution.
And Joe Repya – didn’t support me or my guy so you must be some pawn of the party.
I have little time for people who pout when they don’t win and blame some vast conspiracy.
Also time for a look in the wayback machine when a certain blogger was talking about quitting:
Here is what I think has to happen, and quick. We need to come back together as a party. We need to unite once again to take on the DFL, rather than each other.
Pawlenty was right when he said that he could not take on the DFL, moderates, and the conservatives. But I see it being far worse for every Republican in the State if we all spend the next 11 months bitching and moaning at each other only to hurt each other and watch the Democrats laugh all the way to victory.
-Residual Forces 2005
Margaret summed it up nicely: “At some point, all of us learn in politics that you can’t have it all and the best is the enemy of the good.”
No matter which camp we’re in, we should show respect for others in the party (even those leaving it). We have great people in our CD5 district from all stripes working together to change hearts and minds. No one will agree on every issue, but we understand the need to unite and fight on common issues — and find a common ground.
Onward and upward.
Where to begin….
Some Ron Paul people did not follow the so called slate and vote for Thompson/Fleming/Matthews. Some played the fictitious we’re going to be pure and vote for Swinehard….. which was a game created by Nathan Hanson and a couple of people from the Eastern 6th District. Others got right in bed with the establishment team so Sutton and Brodkorb do owe their wins to these people. Hardly a conspiracy.
And my point was NOT that the state leaders throw Hanson out. My challenge to them was how do they stop the feuds that are taking place and to unify the party? that’s what I meant by the ball was in their court. How can they regroup the base of the party after dismal elections and another bitter party election cycle at all levels?
A lot of very good activists were thrown out or are taking a break because they have been crapped on enough, had a bunch of new people show up and take over, or burned out over the last couple cycles. In other places some new people decided everyone had to go based on whether or not they supported the right Presidential candidate or not. A lot of institutional wisdom got thrown in the trash barrel and in some Districts no one is minding the store or the daily business because they are trolling for places to leave anti-war comments or Committee meetings turn into inquisitions where the only progress is made is one where people have to flex parliamentarian muscle to the degree that no progress in voter ID, issues, or electioneering is taking place or even on the radar screen. Votes cannot be won around square tables, by the perfectly worded motion, or by thinking you[’re the smartest person in the room who has the best knowledge of the Constitution……
The task for Sutton & Brodkorb s how can they mend these fences (some of which they helped tear down to win) and get us all back on the same page? That’s why I have always said who is in these positions really does matter and have been suspect of the people who did win.
You see this is not about the state dictating, it is about how do we come together and move forward, yes I have said such things, nice to know you’re still hanging on to all the old opposition research. The problem is that some people are dishonest, got into various leadership positions, and have become drunk with power and are becoming bigger problems then ever before.
Ok….
I thought we had crossed a bridge and kinda figured out how to work together. After the election last year, I got a chance to see a lot of people working side by side and I had thought maybe it was going to be ok. But to be honest, I saw a lot of the sideshow groups continue on, those people end up using them to get GOP leader positions, and now I see the purge beginning. it ain’t good, and why i think we’re entering a period of the Lost Generation. other groups are fine, but when you’re in GOP leadership, that’s your role baby. you’re not a king or a queen, you’re now the hardest worker in the District and everything rests on your shoulders. Trust me, I learned this the hard way when i was first elected and busted my ass the last cycle.
I would like to expect that Hanson does the noble thing and tender his resignation voluntarily to the 4th District. I see a comment from one CD4 Exec Member that makes me think that he’s not alone on the committee and that his behavior will be tollerated and allowed to flourish under the CD4 GOP banner.
http://conservativeminnesotans.blogspot.com/2009/06/repya-leaves-hansen-attacks.html#comments
Hanson crossed a line that as far as I am concerned is on the edge of a volcano’s caldera. But I don’t think he will do the thing and resign. Look, in the brief exchanges or situations I have seen him in, I am not too impressed and wouldn’t let this guy pick up all the dog crap in my back yard.
If he is removed, it is up to the 4th CD and them alone. I can tell you that if I did live in CD4, I would be sending in a notice saying that I refuse to participate in any CD4 activities if he was Deputy Chair. The Executive Committee had better act quickly and if Hanson does not issue an apology, show true remorse, a reform in thinking towards our military and veterans, or resign I am sure I am not alone in saying my work, money, and support will be going elsewhere. The crap from the leadership race is over, but his words are intolerable in this case.
But again CD4 needs to deal with Hanson.
The State party (Sutton & Brodkorb) needs to figure out how to get us ALL, or at least those willing, to work toward the same goals. They need to undo what Ron Carey did, not praise him. They need to rebuild the party that Carey tore apart intentionally.
And this gets me to a bigger point that I have noticed. Some (SOME!!!!!) of the new people don’t seem to be working toward a unified party or common goal. It is a hostile takeover, and if they don’t get THEIR way, they are walking.
In my opinion, anyone who just walks away is a fool. I know I am sort of doing so, but I have also found my style and goals are the minority, I have tried but was rejected, so I will do what I can, but reserve myself to what I feel like doing. My commitment is gone because frankly I don’t see the party being run by people who are worth me sacrificing for. Some good, and I am not going after everyone.But I have noticed how nice guys and hard workers have a tendency to get throw under the bus in order for some people to gain, gather, or maintain power and control. And I think some of the new blood Ron Paul crowd are only in this in the short term. Not all, but some. Hence my I’ll be here to pick up the pieces attitude. I’m saving myself if you will.
I do wish we would not label ourselves and have to refer to some people as a Ron Pauler, liberty, old guard, reformer, etc….. but Ron Carey did mismanage this party so badly that he allowed these things to happen in Minnesota, and the RNC allowed for same thing nationally. We now have a party made up of factions, and some of them are loyal only to those with the same patch on their arm.
In the Carey tenure vacuum, all these other groups popped up to fill voids, pick up the party slack, or create other avenues for involvement. In some cases, some of them were simply to keep moving the conservative ball down the field since the party fumbled it, in others they were to create new cliques and social circles with in/around the party leaders who refused to listen. now some of those groups did good work and helped get people elected or issues/legislative things done/stopped, but some others were simply debate clubs and did nothing. And that’s the problem, some people’s loyalty is not with the party, as their assertion to leadership would require, but to some Texas Congressman or a social group who hate one aspect or another about the party.
I am not someone who started a group, forum, or printed business cards or badges to start up so that I can find only the like minded people and make sure we all know who each other is and only talk, work with, and vote for each other. That is one of the dangerous things that has come out of the Ron Paul fad. And yes, it is a fad. He’ll never be President and not all his ideas are doable. Some are good, others are not. Fact. If you refuse to acknowledge that, I think I have proved my point.
…….
I have work to do.
Nathan Hansen represents Nathan Hansen, just like Joe Repya represents Joe Repya. The MNGOP will never advance past personal squabbles like this if we are set on compartmentalizing people into groups and leaving them there. Anyone trying to make this about Ron Paul or “Paul People” is cutting off their nose despite their face.
Nathan should not have used his position to make his point, and for that I’m sure he will catch hell for that here in the 4th. If you feel like applying his words to everyone who leans libertarian, then you’ll be pushing a lot of hard working and worthwhile activists out of the party. Even if it’s a small number, its not like the GOP in this state can afford to get any smaller. All of these continued pissing contests only continue to prove Joe right. This party is too dysfunctional to get anything done in 2010 if we continue down this road, and most of it has to do with the fact that this party has no identify more so than a small faction of “Paul” people.
I couldn’t agree more. I sure hope we can move beyond it, but it is really hard when some people think anyone not in their clique is the enemy. I do not mean to say this about ALL people in the Ron Paul segment and I really did try to make that point. But I have found them to be as cliquish as any others, so it is hard not to.
I think the key to “uniting as a party,” to which everyone seems to pay only lip service, is to put down the rifles and move out of circular firing squad position. The best way to unite is to quit telling the rest of us what we have to believe to be a member. This isn’t a church, and none of you is the Pope. “Anybody that agrees with you 80% of the time is a friend and ally, not a 20% traitor.” — Ronald Reagan. You’re a Republican if you say you are, and if you don’t agree with us on everything, welcome to the Party, pal. Now let’s all go kick some liberal Democrat jackass’ butt.
The way the last administration was handled was like that of a democrat – you stated “You see, there is a party that hates the military and thinks what they do is illegal, immoral, and wrong… that would be the Democrats.”
Yet the democrats have used the Military to cause more deaths of innocents than the republicans ever had, the last administration did the same, used our good men and women to fight a war that isn’t even legally a war.(
I dunno why so many in the GOP think that sacrificing our men and woman to go kill people makes us safe – usually you end up making more enemies by killing people. Most republicans understood this until George the first came along.
Personally I would rather use the Military to protect our boarders then go overseas and make more enemies, that way we are not wasting these brave peoples lives, we are using them to protect us.
Our military right now is being used to create hatred around the world for us. Our children will pay for the actions we have taken over the last 20 years (yes I included Clinton in this mess too)
Hansen respects the military – he just hates the bloodlust that the republicans have seem to gain for war.
You CAN respect the military and be against the war….
You can’t say you love Brett Farve and say how great he is, but hate the NFL and want to change the game.
And to make this clear, the new push from Hanson and ‘phreak’ in the GOP is to become isolationist and have our troops deployed on our own soil, turning a blind eye n the dangers of the world, leaving our allies alone in the woods surrounded by wolves, and countries to do whatever they like, even if that means they attain weapons of mass destruction…….
I’m sorry, I know you think I lust for blood, but you are not only naive to the ways of the world, but you’re philosophy is going to get me and my children killed.
Really?
go tell that to these guys – http://ivaw.org/
How in the hell do you read that I support the comments of Nathan Hansen by my comment posted on http://conservativeminnesotans.blogspot.com/2009/06/repya-leaves-hansen-attacks.html? I neither condoned or condemned Nathans comments. I did not do it there and I will not do it here. Please feel free to contact me in the future so that you can get my opinion directly from me rather than spouting off and insinuating such rubbish. If you recall in the MC post, the writer wanted verification that Nathans comments were really Nathans. I pointed out that yes, they really were Nathans. Then I expressed my views that we should not speak ill of fellow Republicans. If we do, keep it out of the public eye and whether I like it or not, Sutton and Brodkorb are our elected officials and I am ready and willing to work with them. I respect their positions.
As you already know, I am a 4th CD officer. When I campaigned for this position I promised an open line of communication and transparent party leadership. I am always available to answer any questions about our party at the state or CD level. Despite the fact that you do not live in the 4th CD, I urge you to feel free to contact me at any time.