Where Did The Revolution Go?
Posted by Andy on April 30th, 2008
The 6th Congressional District Meeting last night was as uneventful as I had expected.
Truly was not surprised by the lack of attendence by Dr. Paul’s supporters. They got what they wanted … and we have seen the last of them for this election cycle.
Where were all the brand new energetic Ron Paul supporters who were supposed to be breathing new life into this party last night? The 80 some (25% of the Delegation) didn’t show up last night. Did it have anything to do with how we were prepared to discuss the behavior at the convention, from both sides of the story, that scared you away?
Note to State Delegates and Alternates, the next battleground is the state convention. I share your same feeling that going to Rochester for 3 days at the end of the school year/when the weather finally gets nice here in MN, is as low on your to do list as possible, but it is a necessity.
There are 14 Delegates and 14 Alternates to the National Convention that will be elected there, plus more platform resolution debate. The Ron Paul campaign is holding their own pre-convention conventions in order to plan how to complete their task of taking over our National Delegation and change our platform.
If you were elected, and you care about the long term health of this party, you have to do everything in your power to make it to Rochester for the MNGOP State Convention May 29-31.
It will be the battle of the John McCain campaign slate vs the Ron Paul campaign slate for National Delegates and Alternates. I’ve had quite a few people still saying I should run. Maybe I will. I don’t know if I want to (or have the time) go through the costs and pain of mailing to and contacting some 5,000 people who may or may not be there.
But there may be some room in the middle of the campaign slates for some independent runs at the convention. Hmmmm…….
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April 30th, 2008 at 7:42 am
They were told they couldn’t show up because they weren’t on the full committee.
April 30th, 2008 at 7:44 am
And you should definitely run for national delegate, Andy.
April 30th, 2008 at 8:17 am
My last post on the “Ron Paul Revolution” … promise (and I am not confused as to what the question means!). Guess we’ll see if I have any integrity.
If Dr. Paul’s supporters have been such loyal members of (and contributors to) the Republican Party over the years, how is it that they haven’t been involved enough to be members of the committees that are responsible for doing the daily grassroots efforts that get Republicans elected? The answer is readily evident!
April 30th, 2008 at 8:49 am
Marianne - again I have to say….the respect cuts both ways…the distortions are coming from BOTH SIDES and the allegations are coming from BOTH SIDES.
AAA, as a member of the 6th CD Full Committee said that the meeting was open to GOP members. As a member of my CD Full Committee I know that the committee meeting is open to our GOP members. Anyone who has been active in the party for “decades” SHOULD know that their full committee meetings are open to the activists to come observe. PLUS, if I recall correctly (and I do) AAA posted a letter to ALL 6TH CD DELEGATES AND ALTERNATES advising them of the date, time and OPENNESS of the meeting to all delegates and alternates who wished to provide feedback on the CD convention.
So I must inquire…..how in the name of the Constitution that you claim to so revere did you get that this was a CLOSED MEETING?
LL
April 30th, 2008 at 8:51 am
http://www.residualforces.com/2008/04/19/national-delegate-update/
To refresh your memory Marianne.
LL
April 30th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Hello everyone,
My friend sent an email to Mark Swanson to see if this was a meeting we could be involved in. Here is what she asked.
Mr. Swanson,
In regards to your letter about the April 29th meeting; are CD6 delegates and alternates invited to attend this meeting? Your letter states to contact our full committee member, or to contact you with our concerns. Who are the full committee members?
Kindest regards, Stacy - Delegate
Here is what she was told.
Stacy,
This meeting is a full committee meeting. Only those appointed to the fullcommittee by their BPOU will be able to participate in the meeting.Please forward your concerns to me or your BPOU leadership can tell you who the full committee member is from your BPOU.
Warm Regards,Mark
So I don’t see the invitation in that.
I would like to add that I have already told my BPOU chair that I am willing to help the party in any way I can. I want to also put that to the 6th district leaders here, please let me know what you need help with and I would be happy to participate.
Thank you and I hope we take Mark Swanson’s advice and try to move forward.
–David
April 30th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
*sigh*
Apparently Mr Swanson’s letter worked very effectively as an intelligence test as well as being informative.
It’s true only those appointed by their BPOU will be able to “participate”….which means they get a vote. You can still show up and bitch….which is mostly what the Paulians do anyway.
April 30th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
See above. Stacy asked if she could attend. Mark Swanson said no.
I’m sure there were Ron Paul supporters there. I don’t know which full committee members are Ron Paul or McCain, but it sounds like Andy’s identified them all. I’m not even in that CD and did not attend myself.
LL, what are you referring to with allegations and distortions? I may have missed a post. I have to admit, you guys befuddle me.
April 30th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Marianne, a full airing of all the charges and countercharges is far beyond the scope of this medium, so permit us to discuss in generalities. It appears that the Ron Paul supporters want to exercise an influence far beyond their numbers, but rather than do it by convincing others of the rightness of their cause, they are using organization to slant the rules and procedures in their favor– rules that have always been adequate when wielded by Party members of good will and respect. It seems the Ron Paul people, as a whole, do not fall in that category.
April 30th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Your folks are consistently making allegations of GOP wrongdoing. The GOP is consistently making allegations against your folks. Your folks have distorted many things that have been said by GOP regulars and vice versa. I have seen it play out on this and other pages since Feb 5. Please don’t play ignorant. I know you are smarter than that…
LL
April 30th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
To all you long time GOP loyalists.
I am a Paul supporter from the McLeod/Meeker county group. We have been quite successful at transforming the thinking of many locals. We hope to do that state wide. Time may be on our side.
At the 7th district convention we handed out a flyer that showed how much the GOP has lost since 2003.
If the party continues in, its abuse of individual liberties, growing budgets, undeclared wars and nation building there will not be much party left to transform. So you may want to welcome the new people into the party. I do not remember in politics a new group as large as the Paul supporters being openly rejected by the party officials.
April 30th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
There must be more going on in the sixth then what we know.
If the Ron Paul supporters are such a small group, then how did they get there delegates elected?
Regardless of if they lied or not, someone had to decide to vote for them over know folks.
Andy was running, was a know sixth district leader and produced a cool flyer - so how did some unknown Ron Paul candidates beat him?
Either there is a stronger representation of Ron Paul folks in 6th (I don’t think so) or something else is wrong in that part of the state.
As I said, the more folks argue about and talk about trying to silence or kick out the Ron Paul folks, the more they get a chance to repeat their message.
From the looks of this it appears that at least one party leader tried to keep Ron Paul’s folks from showing up. Regardless if that was the intent, they now can use this as more political ammunition.
I think the sixth leadership had better spend less time on Ron Paul and more on Michelle Bachman.
The convention over, let the state and national party deal with it.
As has been said to the Ron Paulites goes same for CD6. The battles over, you lost, you’ll know better how to run things next time - now worry about the real candidates and the real work that needs to be done.
May 1st, 2008 at 7:58 am
How did they get elected?
1) Organization; they did a great job of banding together and vote as a block. When you have huge number of candidates running and one block that holds together, you don’t need anywhere near a majority to win. For Paul supporters the great news that you don’t even need to think in order to be a Paul supporter. Just do what you’re told and be a good little Paulbot.
2) They lied about who they were going to vote for at the convention.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:50 am
Clef said:
For Paul supporters the great news that you don’t even need to think in order to be a Paul supporter. Just do what you’re told and be a good little Paulbot.
Paul supporters are not the folks who blindly go along with party leadership and support liberals such as McCain/Coleman. Read Andy’s blog from just a year ago, not exactly a McCain supporter, but now you all get in line and do what you are told.
What principles do conservatives stand for today? Do you like adding federal depts. such as Homeland Security? Maybe it is Bush’s new drug program for seniors, or federalizing airport security. Is it that conservatives could never stand for trusting the free market? Do you agree with this expanded role in our lives?
What about civil liberties, no we can’t be for those, we are afraid and will give up our rights so that Bush and Clinton can protect us. I always thought conservatives distrusted government, I was wrong we now believe that government is the answer to all our problems.
So we must stop those crazy Ron Paulers who actually believe in free markets, civil liberties and ending undeclared unconstitutional wars.
May 1st, 2008 at 11:26 am
Clef - I must disagree with your generalization. I know many Paul supporters who are very thoughtful, intelligent people who ARE standing on principle (it’s that whole pesky principles first thing that the State Party seems to not understand…).
LibertyFirst - where I depart from the Paul supporters is on principle as well. As the wife of a former soldier and the member of a family FULL of military members, I am dead set against Congressman Paul’s call for withdrawing from Iraq. I have friends and family who served there, who have a much better sense of what is going on there than you or I do, who say that ANY kind of an early pull out will be a DISASTER. When I try to explain that to your fellow Paul supporters, I am called all kinds of nasty things….things that you expect to hear at a Code Pink rally at the Berkley Marine recruiting station - NOT a GOP convention. When I try to remind Paul supporters that in spite of his comments to the contrary, Congressman Paul is as big a Porker as any other legislator…..you don’t want to know what I get called.
As I said before, the insults etc COME FROM BOTH SIDES! Don’t play victim here - your side is just as guilty.
LL
May 1st, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Clef said:
“How did they get elected?
1) Organization; they did a great job of banding together and vote as a block. When you have huge number of candidates running and one block that holds together, you don’t need anywhere near a majority to win.”
I understand how they could beat other unknown candidates.
My questions was, how were they able to beat known candidates.
Andy and others on CD6 leadership are not unknown, how were they not able to gain a minority (or even a plurality) of votes.
Andy was talking about running at state and my question was why wasn’t he able to win in his own district? What happened to other known people in the district?
If you look at the other CDs, it is usual party officers and regulars that got elected.
A minority block can’t over come a majority voting for known people they respect, so what happened?
May 1st, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Lady Logician,
We have troops in 130 countries, over 700 international bases, do you find that acceptable? As far as Iraq is concerned we know people there as well. Some of them believe this is not a cause that can be won. By the way, what is the cause and how can it be won? Ron Paul got more contributions from soldiers than any other candidate (so not all soldiers think like you).
Iraq had nothing to do with 911(link below of GW saying so), it is a sovereign nation we invaded. Now we are talking about war with Iran, are you for that as well?
History proves that empires fall when they extend themselves to far. If you haven’t noticed, we are broke. We were paying $.80 for the Euro, now it is approaching $1.60. Gas was around $1.30 when we invaded, now it approaches $3.50. This is a war tax, if people realized this, the approval of this war would probably drop to single digits. They fund it by the printing of the dollar. Do you think this is sustainable?
I would suggest you do some reading, such as Rose Wilder Lane”s book “The Discovery of Freedom”. She explains how wars suck the energy out of a nation. What you see today is that loss of energy(resoursce) in our economy. Your war policy is making us poorer and less safe.
Do you think it makes us safer and is moral to bomb Arab cities full of women and children (shock and awe, remember Iraq had nothing to do with 911)?
Do you believe that all nations have the right to preemptive war? Does Iran have that right?
If I was an Iranian I would feel mighty threatened with our governments threats toward them, wouldn’t you?
Do we as Americans have the ability to look through the eyes of others?
Hillary said the other day that she would level Iran if they attacked Israel. Would she level Israel if they attack Iran? Do you see the problem with picking sides, alliances ect. George Washington warned of such alliances, maybe he was smarter than us.
As far as Ron Paul being a big spender, I assume you are talking about earmarks. His voting record is stellar on limiting government and taxation. Do you want to compare his record to any of your favorite main line Repubs?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_A77N5WKWM Bush video “Iraq had nothing to do with 911″
May 1st, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Liberty,
My husband was STATIONED at one of those overseas posts. We were there at the PLEASURE of our host country (Germany). As a matter of fact, when that base closed, they “county” we were in took a serious economic hit because of us leaving.
Saddam WAS training anti-American terrorists. They did not have any operational part of the 9-11 attacks…NO ONE EVER CLAIMED THAT. What President Bush did claim was (and this can not be denied) that Iraq was a state sponsor of international terrorism (ask the Kurds about that) and that he was in violation of SEVENTEEN UN resolutions and that we needed to hold him accountable (a core CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLE is taking responsibility for your actions).
If you were Iranian and you were AGAIN in violation of numerous UN resolutions to disarm your nuclear program then yes you should feel mighty threatened. AGAIN….IT’S CALLED BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS!
LL
May 1st, 2008 at 5:19 pm
One other thing for you “constitutionalists”. What is the number ONE reason for federal government???????? National Security! It does not keep our nation secure when we retreat behind our shores and wait for the attackers to come to us. It is a rough world out there. Just because we don’t “interfere” won’t keep us safe! You have to understand your enemy. The Islamists don’t hate us because of our “interference”. They hate us because WE ARE NOT UNDER THEIR CONTROL!
LL
May 1st, 2008 at 9:04 pm
LL said,
“If you were Iranian and you were AGAIN in violation of numerous UN resolutions to disarm your nuclear program then yes you should feel mighty threatened. AGAIN….IT’S CALLED BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS!”
This is just not the case, no more than it is the case that the average American is responsible for the premtive war in Iraq. The average Iranian is no different than you or I, they want to be left alone to raise their families in peace.
As far as conservatives taking responsiblity for their actions, this is a good thing. There are plenty for you to consider.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Please disregard 20
LL Said,
“If you were Iranian and you were AGAIN in violation of numerous UN resolutions to disarm your nuclear program then yes you should feel mighty threatened. AGAIN….IT’S CALLED BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS!”
This is just not the case, no more than it is the case that the average American is responsible for the preemptive war in Iraq. The average Iranian is no different than you or I, they want to be left alone to raise their families in peace.
As far as conservatives taking responsibility for their actions, this is a good thing. There are plenty of consequences for you to consider.
1. 4000 American deaths
2. Hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis
3. 3 trillion in war debt for our children and grandchildren
As you said, AGAIN….IT’S CALLED BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS!”
May 1st, 2008 at 10:26 pm
I sure HOPE we don’t let the UN inspect our weapons facilities. I hope a whole bunch of red-blooded Americans would take up arms against another country and/or the United Nations telling us what to do and what arms we could have. Can you imagine China telling us we couldn’t have nukes, getting the UN to go along, then coming in to 1) inspect and 2) enforce?
May 1st, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Ahhhhhh, so we’re back to the real ROn paul campaign…. that is the one that is more anti-war than the Democrats.
I think that pretty much sums up my apprehension to the Ron Paul
bowlmovement.May 1st, 2008 at 11:08 pm
LL said
My husband was STATIONED at one of those overseas posts. We were there at the PLEASURE of our host country (Germany). As a matter of fact, when that base closed, they “county” we were in took a serious economic hit because of us leaving.
So as a conservative I should be for sending our military abroad to prop up foreign economies? Is that a wise use of our nations wealth? By the way Germany is united, there is no Berlin wall, can we bring those troops home?
LL said
Saddam WAS training anti-American terrorists. They did not have any operational part of the 9-11 attacks…NO ONE EVER CLAIMED THAT. What President Bush did claim was (and this can not be denied) that Iraq was a state sponsor of international terrorism (ask the Kurds about that) and that he was in violation of SEVENTEEN UN resolutions and that we needed to hold him accountable (a core CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLE is taking responsibility for your actions).
So as a conservative I am to accept that it is our nations responsibility to enforce UN resolutions? Is that worth American blood and riches? By the way it is widely known that Al Qaeda was not in Iraq before the invasion. They are there now, what was our goal?
LL said
If you were Iranian and you were AGAIN in violation of numerous UN resolutions to disarm your nuclear program then yes you should feel mighty threatened. AGAIN….IT’S CALLED BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS!
Refer to Bastiat’s comments in blog 21
LL said
One other thing for you “constitutionalists”. What is the number ONE reason for federal government???????? National Security! It does not keep our nation secure when we retreat behind our shores and wait for the attackers to come to us. It is a rough world out there. Just because we don’t “interfere” won’t keep us safe! You have to understand your enemy.
Read the Declaration of Independence, governments only role is to secure liberty. How are they doing that? Patriot Act, loss of Habeas Corpus, policing the world and nation building doesn’t sound like it is in their job description.
LL said
The Islamists don’t hate us because of our “interference”. They hate us because WE ARE NOT UNDER THEIR CONTROL!
I am sure that must be why they hate us. There is no way that it could be that we overthrow their elected leaders, have military bases on their soil, prop up local dictators. Yep your right it must be as you say. I thought us Ron Paulers were the kooks.
As a Christian I can not disregard the lives of my fellow human beings(our soldiers and foreigners) as easily as you. I pray that you will have a change of heart.
Andy said
Ahhhhhh, so we’re back to the real ROn paul campaign…. that is the one that is more anti-war than the Democrats.
What an insult to call Paul people anti-war, much prefer to be pro-war? You should ask yourself if it is possible through government eductation to be indoctrinated. (refer to Orwell’s 1984 for your condition)