Why The Paul Campaign Worries Me
Posted by Andy on April 10th, 2008
AAA the GOP establishment. That is the funniest thing I have read in a while. (at least they spelled my name wrong too)
If this doesn’t show you just how little this movement is active and involved in the broader Republican party, I don’t know what would. Me a part of the establishment? The same establishment I have been hardping on for protecting wayward Republicans? The same establishment I have said has gotten us into this mess.
Look folks, here’s my problem with the Ron Paul thing. I have yet to see how it is about anything other than Ron Paul and the Presidency. There are some good people, but the goal (which I found out about last night) is 25% of the Delegates this time, and 50% in 2012. The Paul campaign’s goal is singular, Ron Paul for President, period.
This has nothing to do with getting good Republicans elected up and down the ticket here in Minnesota. That’s my problem and why I am worried. If we lose 5 seats in the MN House Republican politics in Minnesota is over.
I have a lot in common with the Paul folks. Upset with where the party has been going. Upset about the liberal policies and entitlement programs. I do not however, share some of the ‘libertarian’ policies. Some I do, but some are completely unrealistic or at least not Republican or center right stances.
Believe it or not, they pulled the platform plank to support the marriage amendment in one Congressional District. And it seems their message is one of anti-legal moralism and anti legal paternalism. Will they fight for all or most of the Republican values, or just the ones they espouse.
In Minnesota we have to worry about races besides POTUS and Ron Paul will not be appearing on any ballot here. If that is enough to label me establishment, so be it. The party cannot be singular in focus when it comes to candidates, especially if that candidate will not be appearing on a November ballot.
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April 10th, 2008 at 8:19 am
Wrong again. There are ten or more Ron Paul Republicans running for MN State House right now. They’re out there running for Congress in other states. They’ve volunteering for other GOP candidates. As I’ve said before, many of us have been around carrying water for the GOP for years, decades. I don’t know whom you spoke with, but no one is talking about 2012 at the moment.
Since when did the GOP decide federalism — leaving matters to the states — was a bad idea?
April 10th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Marianne, you’re the head of Paul’s MN operation, so this is great.
My care is in Minnesota and races with in this state. If you can’t tell, the DFL is on the offensive and has the worst in mind for what to do with this state. If they take the MN House you can forget all about any sort of conservative or center right policy remaining in place, let alone passing.
Will your people work to help elect anyone besides your 10 or so for MN House? Heck, if we lose the 6 seats from the override tax increasers, its over for the party. Forget limiting government, it will crush everybody’s freedom and erase liberty for all. In Districts where your candidates didn’t get endorsed, will they be helping those who were endorsed? Really? Will they? Some of the people are Democrats who only came for the anti-war and foreign policy of Paul because Hillbama was not doing enough for them.
Will the 600 or so Delegates and Alternates you may or may not have for the State convention put their energy to benefit the party as a whole AFTER they have done all they can for Ron Paul speaking at the RNC?
I’m not saying they have to support liberal Republicans, but will they be a benefit to the party? Will they at least hold their nose come election day, or will they stay home, or worse, vote for a 3rd party candidate….. or Democrat? Preferably they’ll help lit drop, door knock, make voter ID calls, march in parades, and help with lawn signs. Will they bully their way to passing platform changes through Rules manipulation and suspension, and not by plain old majority rules, democratic processes?
I think having a debate over the message of the party is great, but it seems there is someone trying to be the new ring leader of the GOP circus tent, and that person is closing the tent and trying to throw some out. Our current platform is a mess, I agree, but some of the new stuff being proposed is just plain ridiculous and way too specific. Might be a worthy thing to propose for law, but not something to demand an entire political movement abide by and support.
I support a Minnesota marriage amendment, not a federal one, but a state one. That is the goal of that as far as I see it or as far as I would support it. Does that make me and others who support it un-Republican in the eyes of the Paul folks?
Is the entire Paul movement as anti-war and isolationist as Ron paul is? Is that what the party has to stand for, for you all to be happy with it?
It sure seems to me that we have 2 warring factions right now. The status quo, (R) is all that matters ones and the Paul folks who sure seem to demand that people support “Dr. Paul” or ‘you’re part of the problem’.
Well unfortunately there’s a huge bunch of people (myself included) thousands of them across the state not all of them at conventions, that are great and loyal conservatives who are right on almost all the issues. These people are the ones who get people elected.
I fit in somewhere between the 2 divisions. A Ron Paul approved candidate can’t win in every District, neither can a rock solid existing platform conservative, just like a liberal DFLer can’t win everywhere. Sometimes you need to compromise here and there. But principles shouldn’t be the first thing thrown out the window in the face of adversity, like it has been by the party leadership and senior officials.
Is there room for someone like me in the party you envision? Or are you the judge and jury now?
April 10th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Since when has electing ANYBODY President solved all of the nation’s problems? Ideas like that are not indicative of good mental health. You can complain a lot about how much the GOP has strayed from strict conservative goals, and Andy does a pretty thorough job of that, but you don’t win elections by telling a strong majority of conservatives they’re wrong. Just like football, winning isn’t everything; it’s the only thing. You can’t govern if you don’t win the election. Maybe not even then, if you elected candidates who do not share all of your values, but half a loaf will always be better than none. Sorry. If Ron Paul were truly the best candidate, his supporters wouldn’t need to be bending the common sense rules to advance his candidacy.
April 10th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Sometimes you need to compromise here and there.
Senator Coleman….
enough said.
April 10th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Some of our candidates have already been endorsed; some have not. I don’t know whom all everyone is working for, but I do know they are volunteering for Kline, Bachmann, Barb White in 5, Brian Davis in 1, can’t think of who else.
I can speak for myself: definition of marriage is a state function, so define it if you wish at this level, not at the federal level.
Our folks have been playing by the rules. Yes, when they see a rule they think unfair, they will make a motion to change it. The district puts out rules that it thinks are favorable to them in some fashion, but it is up to the convention to consider the rules, tweak them if necessary, approve them, and then abide by them. Is there something in that process you feel Paulians aren’t doing correctly?
In the 6th District, it wasn’t our people who put forth an illegal motion to bind. Again, we read the rules, the party consitution, etc., and play by them.
I addressed whether there were democrats in the Paul movement over on ShotInTheDark, but I’ll say it again here. There were a handful during the fall and up through the caucuses. Some went back home for the DFL caucuses, and the few that remained really didn’t stay past our caucuses. You have a well-refined, solid gold, if you will, group of liberty-loving Republicans who, if you welcome them in, will provide some much needed energy and principle that is desperately needed right now in the party.
I don’t know where you got the 600 number, but the Paulians by no means control this party. We’ve won a minority of the national delegates, and the leadership in most areas (there are a few fair-minded districts I could name) is solidly against us. So I am here asking, are you going to welcome our help and involvement?
April 10th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
I’m glad and I hope they understand when those CD candidates don’t endorse going back to the Gold standard or abolishing the Treasury Dept, or cutting and running from Iraq and the war on terror that they still stick around and not call them names or the other party people who support them.
That is what active members of the party have to do, especially delegates. Once someone is endorsed, it is typical form for Delegates to support that person. The time to hold them accountable is at endorsement. Oh and we don’t endorse Presidents. Sorry. After that we are left to the role as constituents and have to lobby through letters and calls. Unless of course you’re planning a late September primary operation too…..
The motion wasn’t “illegal”. Where’s the cops coming to get me if it was? Sheesh, talk about playing for sympathy with inflammatory words. I don’t remember any of your people saying it was “illegal” at the convention. And it was only during that debate that your ulterior motives were exposed for all to see. Hiding ones true intent and then claiming they didn’t know after they got caught is akin to lying and lacks integrity.
Some people seem to think the motion is fine, others not. I don’t know where it stands right now. If it stands, the people are just bound to their words. Not McCain directly, but to their words they told the 6th District covention. That was my motion. It didn’t include McCain, just said that they’d have to follow their word.
That’s the problem you have with people like me who have put in so much time and made that day possible, only to have people knowingly mislead and deceive and use those of us who made that day possible to go on to embarrass the party on the national stage is a pretty big let down and why there is such opposition.
Your problem is one I myself had when i thought I could save the party. You come in telling people how they should think and that you know best. You call them bad Republicans or names when they don’t listen. You have to either change leadership or candidates to fix anything, but once the tallies are in and not in your favor, you can’t simply destroy a party you claim you want to be apart of. You stay involved, you earn your place, and if you really are the great thinker and leader, people will make sure you get a chance next time to implement your plan.
The intentions of your campaign are what are so controversial. The National Convention is not a place where platform or policy can be addressed. It’s a pageant with a predetermined outcome. John McCain, like it or not, is going to come out victorious. Having the host state’s delegation disrupt the proceedings and blacken the eye of our candidate doesn’t sit well with anyone. The tradition of the party is that long time workers and supporters go to it as a reward. Now myself, I only came into it late upon request, but yeah, it would have been a once in a lifetime honor.
Even those of us who ad been working against McCain getting the nomination. Yes I am not a McCainiac, want to see Minnesota’s chance at hosting the convention go well and be a success. I’ve been opposed to him for 4 years or so, but ….. I hate to break it to you, he won. It is over. My guy lost a long time ago. And if anything, our Delegates should be voting for Romney, he did win our straw poll.
I have a bit of libertarianism in me, but I consider myself a conservative. I kinda like the 21st Century and some of the policies of Dr. Paul are just plain implausible in today’s world. Some roads we are too far down to go back and start over. Others are ones we need to start now so maybe someday we can be as free as we’d like, but we can’t make the jump overnight like some want. And others yet are old abandoned roads because they lead to a very bad place.
I welcome a resurgence of conservative energy (not Libertarian or Democrat party crossovers trying to hijack the GOP, but conservative people willing to join forces and propel a center right message and elect like minded people is what this party needs)
The question is not so much will I welcome them in? Heck I’m blacklisted by current party leaders and top candidates. It chapped their hides I did as well as they said I did in the Delegate part and when it came time for them to tell people to vote for me for Alternate, well, lets just say I doubt they did.
I bust my ass for the party locally and I hold true to my conservative principles. That’s why i am thrilled to be in the 6th because it means something here. I was raised in the 4th where there’s not a snowballs chance to have someone elected who you agree with. Betty will leave that seat feet first I fear. Up here in the 6th I’ve worked very hard for Bachmann. I’ve done much behind the scenes to help the 6th as a whole. You’d be damn surprised how welcoming and fair our leadership is up here vs the state level. All they ask for is honest & loyal people and actions who are willing to work.
So what can you do for the party? What do you have to offer? Conventions are only a small part of the game, and in the end don’t get people elected.
You can’t suspend the rules when you don’t like them in general elections. Your people may be good at that, but can they do the real grassroots work that this party desperately needs.
Besides the ability to win Delegates, do you have anything to offer?
April 10th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Andy, are you still asking these questions (in #6) of Marianne? Or of RP supporters in general? Because I think she has answered your questions already. We have (RP) people running for office. We have (RP) people helping with those campaigns plus others. I’ve supported multiple Republican candidates (not just RP people) in the last few months. I live in Rochester and expect that I’ll be volunteering with the state convention in the very near future. It seems your questions and doubt are always of the others- if one person stands up and says ‘I’m not like your stereotype’ you are implying that person is the exception. How many of us have to respond to you personally before you’ll change your mind? If you want to know the long term answer, you’ll have to wait and see. but I can tell you I’ll see you there. And this is coming from someone who has never ever been politically active (other than being an informed voter at the polls) before now. Ron Paul cured my apathy, for sure.
Spend some time on the Ron Paul site. His most recent video broadcasts have been about continuing the “revolution” and NOT about his presidential bid. He has backed off his campaign and is in position to take a role as a leader of a GOP MOVEMENT. He is fathering a shift back to conservative fundamentals. Go ahead and keep ranting about the Ron Paul for President wackos on your blog, we’ll be over here, quietly trying to shake the RINOs out of the bushes and clean up the GOP’s bad name with a country overwhelmingly fed up with neocon and “moderate” tactics.
I do agree with you that anyone who lied to the nominating committee was not showing the good principles Ron Paul espouses, but I also get why they would feel pressured to do so. In my precinct, the rest of the votes were pretty evenly split between Huckabee, McCain, and Paul, and I’m certain if we’d held a vote on Feb 5 with Romney off the table, McCain would not have won. If everyone’s so confident that McCain is the ‘presumptive nominee’ what are you so afraid of? If leadership is so confident it should be McCain, why aren’t they adding a presidential preference vote at the conventions to see where the delegation really stands?
As for the ‘tradition’ of the national convention as a ‘formality’- I cry foul. Look at what has happened with the shifting of primaries to mega-super-Tuesday. Why have states tried to move up their dates (including MINNESOTA)? Because the media is so in-your-face over the results that they are DRIVING the process now. Why have we let the media run our other more palatable candidates off from the race before the convention? Why on Earth should the national convention be a pageant show and waste of time instead of a forum to show the DEPTH and BREADTH and SOUL of the party, the way it was originally intended? They’ve let modern times spoil what used to be important party business. Why don’t we just let Wolf Blitzer tell us in January who the winner should be and cut out the
votersmiddlemen?What I see is twice as many Dems showing up as Republicans for primaries. If they manage to come anywhere close to that turnout come November, we’re completely hosed and ALL of this bickering is for nothing. I can’t stand the DFL-socialist agenda, but I’m uneasy at the thought of John “100 years” McCain and “his friends” running this country– but since I don’t think he has much of a chance against the “Change” peddlers, I’m happy to try to get Ron Paul some face time at the convention to shake the party and spread the word.
-RL
April 11th, 2008 at 6:31 am
Through the discussions here and from emails, I am encouraged to learn that some of the Paul folks that believe 9-11 was an inside job are minorities. Your 100 years comment does worry me, but I’ll back off.
I’ve been saying for some time that our system in Minnesota is busted and needs to be reformed. Our process nationwide is a joke too. Why a dozen people at a BBQ in Iowa get to decide who should or should not be a nominee is beside me. …… but that is a whole different discussion not worth having right now. In the future, yes, but not now. We’ve got liberalism to stop.
So forward we go, hopefully together. Trust, but verify.