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    • « Let the Record Show, Facts Are Stubborn Things
    Pay Attention Rosie »

    Gender Inequity

    Posted by Andy on April 30th, 2007

    I find just the notion of this completely insulting and completely unAmerican.

    This entry was posted on Monday, April 30th, 2007 at 7:31 am and is filed under Know Thy Enemy, National, Politics. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

    15 Responses to “Gender Inequity”

    1. montanaliberal Says:
      April 30th, 2007 at 8:39 am

      that’s because you’re male

    2. montanaliberal Says:
      April 30th, 2007 at 8:40 am

      yeah that proposal is wack, but it shouldn’t have to even be proposed, because there should be no gender gap, so fix that problem and you won’t have to hear about such “UnAmerican” things such as this.

    3. Nordeaster Says:
      April 30th, 2007 at 9:50 am

      First, if you make lower pay, you already do pay a lower rate. Second, and the most disturbing is how little grasp of our constitution people seem to have.

    4. montanaliberal Says:
      April 30th, 2007 at 1:05 pm

      right, but that still doesn’t change the fact that gender inequality exists in the work force…

    5. Nordeaster Says:
      April 30th, 2007 at 1:43 pm

      Not entirely true, ML. If by gender inequity you mean women average less pay than men, then yes. But if you mean less pay for the same exact career path, a lot of the data says no.

      For example one study I saw showed that female doctors on average made less money than male doctors. However, if you dig deeper, you find that a higher percentage of the male doctors were surgeons and in other high pay / high demand areas of medical practice while family practice had a disproportionate number of women. This is not because of any discrimination, but rather a choice in the type of practice they chose to pursue.

      I have also seen data regarding the business and professional fields that show a higher percentage of men are willing to put in 50, 60 & 70 hour work weeks than women. When those working a straight 40 are compared across gender and those working 60+ are compared across gender the differences are minimal and in some fields and age groups favored women.

      Also women are more likely to take extended time off to spend with family. If someone takes two years off, that’s not only two years less experience, but you also lose contacts and visibility. When you control for this the numbers are also not that different.

      Where a lot of studies go wrong is that they use a standard of “equivalent work” rather than “identical work”. These studies take demand and any other unique skill requirements out of the picture. For example, schools rarely have trouble finding qualified sociology teachers, but often have trouble finding qualified calculus and AP physics teachers. While those may be equivalent jobs, they are not equal jobs and due to supply, demand, skills required and the value of those skills in the marketplace should not be compensated equally.

    6. montanaliberal Says:
      April 30th, 2007 at 2:23 pm

      basically what you’re trying to tell me in a long winded attempt is… that you don’t believe in the gender gap…

      or if you do, that it’s because of some other reason than just male vs. female, which obviously can’t be true…

      i realize it’s not all cut and dry here, trust me, but the fact still remains, is it happens, even without some other outside factor like you describe above, and that’s what i’m getting at… that’s what needs to be eliminated in the next 10 years (or should have been in the 70’s and 80’s)

    7. Nordeaster Says:
      April 30th, 2007 at 3:50 pm

      What I’m saying is you can’t determine there is a gender gap simply by looking at the salaries of the two genders — you have to compare like to like on a whole multitude of factors, not just “equivalent” work.

      I’m also saying that where there is a gender gap it usually isn’t due to discrimination but other factors and choices made.

      Right now college enrollment is 60-40 female. Is that a gender gap? You could say so. Is it one that needs to be closed? I don’t think so. It’s probably just that college appeals to a higher percentage of women than men, while alternatives such as trade schools, trade work or self-employment might appeal to a higher percentage of males.

      While the genders are equal under the law and should be treated as such, they are not THE SAME and will not make the same choices as a generality. We seem to have no trouble acknowledging the differences in field of relationships (Men are from Mars…, et al), but we pretend those diffences don’t exist and effect behavior in other areas. Larry Summers was skewered for suggesting just that.

    8. Andy Says:
      April 30th, 2007 at 4:02 pm

      This is bigoted sexism sanctioned and enforced through the Government if this crap passes.

      Let me ask you social engineers a question.

      Should Tarryl. Clark make more that Larry Pogemiller?

    9. the Lady Logician Says:
      April 30th, 2007 at 6:21 pm

      ML - you are nuts! If that were indeed the case there would be 100% employment of women because we all know that evil big business is all about making the most money possible….

      Talking points aside, there is a big reason for the so-called pay gap. Women like ME….3 years ago I left a full time job where I was making high 5 figures in order to be home more with my teen age Junior Logician. I am making less than half of what I was making but my current job has the flexibility that allows me to work at home on in-service days or snow days are juggle my hours around so that I can take time off to go on field trips and the like. Yes, I could (and would) be making much more if I were working full time (I was making more than my male counterparts BTW) within my industry, but I am more fulfilled now than I was then and THAT is more important than the money.

      People like me are what skews the numbers which is why the gender pay gap is a FALLICY!

      LL

    10. spurringirl Says:
      April 30th, 2007 at 10:15 pm

      I work in what would historically be considered a very male dominated industry, an Old Boys Club, if you will. I can say that I’ve never seen any gender discrimination.

      It is my feeling that promotions should go to the most qualified, hardest working individuals. If I take an extended leave to raise a family or go back part-time, I do not expect the same compensation as somebody who has worked harder and gained more experience than I. Corporate America’s primary responsibility is to the shareholders, they are the owners of the Corporation. Their goal is the long range profitability of the company. If somebody is willing to give his/her life to help attain the long range plans of a firm, then absolutely yes, they should be compensated for that.

      As the Lady Logician implies above, those of us who want work/life balance and understand economics accept that fact. I know that I could make more money, but I would lose the flexibility that I now have to pick up my son, go on field trips, etc. And maybe more women in general do make her family her priority. But at the end of the day, we are all compensated for the level of effort we put forth.

    11. Nordeaster Says:
      April 30th, 2007 at 10:24 pm

      Andy asked “Should Tarryl. Clark make more that Larry Pogemiller?”

      If there were any justice, an organ grinder’s monkey would make more than Larry Pogemiller.

    12. montanaliberal Says:
      May 1st, 2007 at 8:09 am

      Lady… ok, if you say so…

    13. montanaliberal Says:
      May 1st, 2007 at 8:10 am

      i’m not saying it’s total commonplace, but i’ve experienced it first hand at the managerial level, where my previous company gave the job to a woman because they knew they could pay her less…

      thank god i don’t work there anymore…

    14. montanaliberal Says:
      May 1st, 2007 at 8:12 am

      “This is bigoted sexism sanctioned and enforced through the Government if this crap passes.”

      uhm, earth to andy, this wasn’t even proposed in any sort of legislature unless i’m reading that article incorrectly? it was just one economists idea…?

    15. Nordeaster Says:
      May 1st, 2007 at 9:48 am

      So they discriminated against the woman by giving her the promotion instead of the man? The heartless bastards.

      Just giving you a little grief, ML.

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