Be Afraid, Be VERY Afraid
Posted by Andy on January 31st, 2007
The DFL nanny staters are in control.
Hortman says even if every car on the road was burning ethanol, it wouldn’t cut emissions by 30 percent by 2030.
“We need to do some other things. And the biggest thing we need to do is take cars off the road.”
That’s YOUR car Minnesotans! The DFL doesn’t want you to have a car.
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January 31st, 2007 at 11:06 pm
Emissions would NOT be cut by 30 percent. We would use 30 percent more ethanol than gasoline to make up the difference of what we’re losing.
10 percent Ethanol = 10% MPG reduction/10% Power reduction/10% emission per gallon reduction
20 percent Ethanol = 20% MPG reduction/20% Power reduction/20% emission per gallon reduction
Moral of the story is that putting that garbage in our gas has no effect on the environment. We are only burning gasoline - ethanol is just a filler. We still need to purchase 10-20% more ethanol to make our trips than if we were using a non-ethanol blend. The stuff is completely worthless!!!
February 1st, 2007 at 10:26 am
completely worthless?
tell that to my uncle who is a Corn farmer near Morris…
nobody has ever claimed that Ethanol is the perfect solution, but anything that lowers our independence on foreign oil, no matter how much, is a step in the right direction.
February 1st, 2007 at 10:26 am
also, the efficiency of Ethanol is improving all the time too
February 1st, 2007 at 10:55 am
So can we drill for oil and natural gas domestically? I’m guessing no.
Also, do you know that something like 60% of our oil comes from the Americas and not the middle east?
February 1st, 2007 at 11:34 am
it depends where… in North Dakota’s vast wasteland? sure…
in some of the most pristine and last untouched wilderness in Alaska? you’d have to ask the locals, and i’m guessing most will say no.
as for the US’s oil useage and where it comes from, 55% comes from outside the US, so 45% domestically. i don’t have a huge problem with that, but the fact that the US uses over 20 million barrels a day and the next closest behind us is Japan at just over 6 million, does that not seem a bit high to you?
February 1st, 2007 at 11:36 am
Also, you should SEE all of the nautral gas wells they’ve put in on the border of Montana & Wyoming, it’s a huge huge business that’s grown insanely over the last 4 years. while it’s great for farmers, the impact it’s having on cattle that graze in the same pastures where the deposits are being collected is unknown (but starting to look to be not as good as had hoped)
February 1st, 2007 at 11:38 am
Also, i’m far from anti-big business, but does this not make you a bit annoyed?
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2007/02/01/D8N0VRD80.html
February 1st, 2007 at 1:18 pm
Costal drilling. Yes, Alaska.
Look at what we do with our useage compared to others.
Mexico and Canada make up a huge amount of our ‘foreign’ supply.
I’m willing to say, yes we NEED oil. We should probably start to see if there is anything better. As of now there is not a better replacement, and the snake oil salesmen are trying to ram one through. The replacement is not compatible with the current infrastructure in Amer. Most cars cannot burn high amounts of ethanol. You can’t heat your home with ethanol. Why should I be happy we are diverting every resource to this.
Hey, if people want to push ethanol as good for farmers, great. Have at it, but don’t say this is some magical solution for foreign oil use. Its not, and it won’t be for decades. All them old cars, and by old I mean starting now, will have to rust apart. The new cars with uber DFL restrictive laws will be POSes. Sorry, I’m still an American and I want a little get up and go or kick ass in my vehciles. I’;m not a pasny assed girlie man who wants a SPEC or some other car GORE and Streisand would approve of.
Its America goll dang it. I am not killing Earth. Earth has cycles. What’s now Minnesota used to be covered with huge glaciers. They started receeding before my SUV was even invented.
I believe I am what the MN Legislature now officially refers to as Global Warming Deniers. That’s fine. I am not drinking the kool aid that it is all our fault. Because if it is, then every facet that makes us better than the rest of the world will have to go.
But again, if people want to push renewables, I would be ok with that, so long as they are honest. Corn ethanol is garbage and may in fact be bad for the Environment. the refining of it seems to consume a hell of a lot of natural gas and electricity. Not to mention the herbicides and pesticides used to grow the corn. Why is agricultural run off no longer a worry? in an effort to cut our addiction to oil, we may pollute our lakes and rivers 10 fold.
We also now ship in liquified natural gas because of the enviro laws from other nations who don’t have such laws. We could build cleaner coal plants than being used today, but they are too expensive.
Wind power is only good on windy days. Solar on sunny days. etc etc.
We need to face it, we need the things we are trying to convince ourselves we don’t.
We cannoty compare ourselves to every other nation, just like they can’t to us.
OK, now I am going to go drive my gas guzzling truck to lunch. Sorry bout the spelling errors. in a hurry. Didn’t look at link yet.
February 1st, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Montana - and while your uncle in Morris is selling all of his corn to ethanol plants at inflated prices, the poor in Mexico are starving because they can’t afford to by tortillas!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6319093.stm
There are consequences to all of our actions. One of the many consequences of ethanol is that more people in ALL countries will go hungy because the cost of food is skyrocketing while more and more corn is funnelled off into ethanol plants to meet government madated production levels.
LL
February 1st, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Montana - one persons “vast wasteland” (your reference to NoDak) is another persons “pristine wilderness” and vice versa. Studies have shown that the caribou actually flouished around the Trans-Alaska pipeline and the areas we are drilling in due to the warmth of the oil running through the pipeline and the accessibility to airlift in feed (for the humans and the animals in and around the drilling). Alaska has shown that it can be done responsibly. If we let the Alaskans run the drilling in ANWR they will handle it in the same manner that they have handled the Trans-Alaskan Pipeline.
LL
February 1st, 2007 at 3:18 pm
I find it interesting that when I drive from the Twin Cities to Council Bluffs/Omaha area (385 miles one way) - I can have a full tank of MANDATED ethanol when I leave here. Even while going downhill practically all the way to Omaha, I still have to top off the tank somewhere between Ankeny, IA and Council Bluffs.
On the return trip, I fill up with 87 octane NON-ETHANOL (which I pay a few more cents/gallon for) and make the complete return trip, going uphill most of the way, and still have about 1/8 of a tank left.
Why is it that I can buy NON-ETHANOL in Bartlesville, Oklahoma and drive almost 550 miles per tank, and with the ethanol blend in Minnesota, I have to stop around 330 miles to gas up. I haven’t changed the size of my tank during this time - so something’s up with the blend.
Fact is - if I’m burning Ethanol, I have to stop more often during a trip in order to gas up than if I’m burning a non-ethanol blend. I’m still consuming the same amount of gasoline, because it seems that that’s all I’m burning, the gasoline, not ethanol.
I don’t support government subsidies to Ethanol producers and farmers either. If it can support itself in the marketplace without government subsidies, I might buy into the argument. However, without government subsidies, Ethanol will wither on the vine. Farm subsidies for ethanol just makes it another government-run jobs program, and there is great error in logic if people support ethanol for that reason.
February 1st, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Oh, I forgot - the more times I have to stop to fill up, the more gasoline tax I have to pay. Now ethanol support (among politicians) makes perfect sense.
February 1st, 2007 at 4:46 pm
[i]Look at what we do with our useage compared to others.[/i]
and what exactly is it that we “do” ?
[i]I’m willing to say, yes we NEED oil. We should probably start to see if there is anything better. As of now there is not a better replacement, and the snake oil salesmen are trying to ram one through. The replacement is not compatible with the current infrastructure in Amer. Most cars cannot burn high amounts of ethanol. You can’t heat your home with ethanol. Why should I be happy we are diverting every resource to this.[/i]
actually you CAN heat your home with corn/ethanol, don’t believe me? do a search on it… i know someone who back in high school 12+ years ago who did the exact same thing. the problem with your “right now there is not a better replacement” complacent attitude is, if nothing is done and no progress made, it will never happen, it will just stir around in a lull. the only way to make it happen for real is to be bold and aggressive about it. how exactly to go about those moves, is up for debate, but to say we should just not bother right now because there are no “viable” alternatives is to just sweep it under the rug. am i afraid of us running out of oil by the time i die? no. but i do care about future generations on earth…
[i]Hey, if people want to push ethanol as good for farmers, great. Have at it, but don’t say this is some magical solution for foreign oil use. Its not, and it won’t be for decades. All them old cars, and by old I mean starting now, will have to rust apart. The new cars with uber DFL restrictive laws will be POSes. Sorry, I’m still an American and I want a little get up and go or kick ass in my vehciles. I’;m not a pasny assed girlie man who wants a SPEC or some other car GORE and Streisand would approve of.[/i]
well there you go, it’s obvious where your priorities lie from you wanting a “kick ass” in your vehicle over helping the environment. not saying there’s anything wrong with wanting some power in your vehicle, but i guarantee my Honda would blow your truck off the line, all the while still getting 35 MPG. you can still have good power AND fairly good fuel consumption, they’re not always mutually exclusive.
the thing is, hydrogen has the potential to be not only totally clean compared to gas vehicles, but also even more powerful and efficent as well. yes we’re 15-20 years off from hydrogen cars being fairly common on the road, but to just keep putting it off, we will never make progress. this type of thing was pushed fairly hard in the mid 80’s and then almost forgotten until the last 5-10 years for the most part. you’re never going to get anything done (in ANY tech/science field) if you go about it like that.
the thing is, you make it sound like people are all declaring Ethanol to be the ultimate, be-all, end-all solution, they’re not. it’s a stepping stone. but if we all had your attitude about it, nothing would ever be done about it, EVER, we’d just keep saying it’s “decades off” for decades upon decades.
and if you define your manlihood by what kind of car you drive, you’ve got issues and are making up for something that’s lacking…
[i]
Its America goll dang it. I am not killing Earth. Earth has cycles. What’s now Minnesota used to be covered with huge glaciers. They started receeding before my SUV was even invented.[/i]
nobody is saying that humans are the only thing to blame behind Global Warming, that’s just it… but we as humans can do something about lessening our impact, and that’s all most people are asking, is to just be earth-conscious. it’s not about being some sorta “hippy” or “tree-hugger” either, you’d be surprised how little it takes from each person in a given year to make a sizeable impact.
[i]I believe I am what the MN Legislature now officially refers to as Global Warming Deniers. That’s fine. I am not drinking the kool aid that it is all our fault. Because if it is, then every facet that makes us better than the rest of the world will have to go.[/i]
have you even traveled outside of North America? if not, you cannot say we’re “better than the rest of the world”. as someone who has traveled to over 20 different countries on 3 continents in my fairly short life so far, there’s a lot more amazing places in the world than the US and A, maybe you should see it for yourself…
[i]Wind power is only good on windy days.[/i]
i actually have a sizeable investment in a wind farm back in Montana, so in 5-10 years when it starts paying off in droves, i’ll wave as i pass your big ‘ole truck in my new 2014 Porsche convertible.
but seriously, not utilizing wind for energy is just silly if you know anything about wind power. and this isn’t even some enviro-nut thing either…, also, you’d be shocked how little wind it takes to generate power. is it comparable to coal or Nuclear? no… is the resource itself after the infrastructure is built free and plentiful? you bet.
February 1st, 2007 at 4:47 pm
shit, sorry:
Look at what we do with our useage compared to others.
and what exactly is it that we “do” ?
I’m willing to say, yes we NEED oil. We should probably start to see if there is anything better. As of now there is not a better replacement, and the snake oil salesmen are trying to ram one through. The replacement is not compatible with the current infrastructure in Amer. Most cars cannot burn high amounts of ethanol. You can’t heat your home with ethanol. Why should I be happy we are diverting every resource to this.
actually you CAN heat your home with corn/ethanol, don’t believe me? do a search on it… i know someone who back in high school 12+ years ago who did the exact same thing. the problem with your “right now there is not a better replacement” complacent attitude is, if nothing is done and no progress made, it will never happen, it will just stir around in a lull. the only way to make it happen for real is to be bold and aggressive about it. how exactly to go about those moves, is up for debate, but to say we should just not bother right now because there are no “viable” alternatives is to just sweep it under the rug. am i afraid of us running out of oil by the time i die? no. but i do care about future generations on earth…
[i]Hey, if people want to push ethanol as good for farmers, great. Have at it, but don’t say this is some magical solution for foreign oil use. Its not, and it won’t be for decades. All them old cars, and by old I mean starting now, will have to rust apart. The new cars with uber DFL restrictive laws will be POSes. Sorry, I’m still an American and I want a little get up and go or kick ass in my vehciles. I’;m not a pasny assed girlie man who wants a SPEC or some other car GORE and Streisand would approve of.[/i]
well there you go, it’s obvious where your priorities lie from you wanting a “kick ass” in your vehicle over helping the environment. not saying there’s anything wrong with wanting some power in your vehicle, but i guarantee my Honda would blow your truck off the line, all the while still getting 35 MPG. you can still have good power AND fairly good fuel consumption, they’re not always mutually exclusive.
the thing is, hydrogen has the potential to be not only totally clean compared to gas vehicles, but also even more powerful and efficent as well. yes we’re 15-20 years off from hydrogen cars being fairly common on the road, but to just keep putting it off, we will never make progress. this type of thing was pushed fairly hard in the mid 80’s and then almost forgotten until the last 5-10 years for the most part. you’re never going to get anything done (in ANY tech/science field) if you go about it like that.
the thing is, you make it sound like people are all declaring Ethanol to be the ultimate, be-all, end-all solution, they’re not. it’s a stepping stone. but if we all had your attitude about it, nothing would ever be done about it, EVER, we’d just keep saying it’s “decades off” for decades upon decades.
and if you define your manlihood by what kind of car you drive, you’ve got issues and are making up for something that’s lacking…
Its America goll dang it. I am not killing Earth. Earth has cycles. What’s now Minnesota used to be covered with huge glaciers. They started receeding before my SUV was even invented.
nobody is saying that humans are the only thing to blame behind Global Warming, that’s just it… but we as humans can do something about lessening our impact, and that’s all most people are asking, is to just be earth-conscious. it’s not about being some sorta “hippy” or “tree-hugger” either, you’d be surprised how little it takes from each person in a given year to make a sizeable impact.
I believe I am what the MN Legislature now officially refers to as Global Warming Deniers. That’s fine. I am not drinking the kool aid that it is all our fault. Because if it is, then every facet that makes us better than the rest of the world will have to go.
have you even traveled outside of North America? if not, you cannot say we’re “better than the rest of the world”. well you can say it, but i’ll scoff at it.
as someone who has traveled to over 20 different countries on 3 continents in my fairly short life so far, there’s a lot more amazing places in the world than the US and A, maybe you should see it for yourself…
Wind power is only good on windy days.
i actually have a sizeable investment in a wind farm back in Montana, so in 5-10 years when it starts paying off in droves, i’ll wave as i pass your big ‘ole truck in my new 2014 Porsche convertible.
but seriously, not utilizing wind for energy is just silly if you know anything about wind power. and this isn’t even some enviro-nut thing either…, also, you’d be shocked how little wind it takes to generate power. is it comparable to coal or Nuclear? no… is the resource itself after the infrastructure is built free and plentiful? you bet.