Comments on: Keith and His Koran http://www.residualforces.com/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/ A Stream of Consciousness by Andy Aplikowski on His Life, His Politics, His Dogs, His Truck, and Whatever Pleases His Fancy Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:52:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Andy http://www.residualforces.com/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31637 Andy Sat, 06 Jan 2007 01:09:29 +0000 http://www.residualforces.com/http:/residualforces.com/index.php/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31637 Then will Ellison please tell me and other just what the heck he wants us to learn about it? Because the only people making noise on behalf of Islam are doing it with IEDs and blood. Oh and define liveable. thirty-some % increase in violent crime? High taxes? Poor education.... Then will Ellison please tell me and other just what the heck he wants us to learn about it? Because the only people making noise on behalf of Islam are doing it with IEDs and blood.

Oh and define liveable. thirty-some % increase in violent crime? High taxes? Poor education….

]]> By: GumbyAnne http://www.residualforces.com/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31630 GumbyAnne Sat, 06 Jan 2007 00:22:37 +0000 http://www.residualforces.com/http:/residualforces.com/index.php/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31630 Oh, and on the topic of wife-beating: during the campaign it came out that his Republican opponent (a Jew) actually did beat his ex-wife. Ellison has not been accused of any such thing. Oh, and on the topic of wife-beating: during the campaign it came out that his Republican opponent (a Jew) actually did beat his ex-wife. Ellison has not been accused of any such thing.

]]> By: GumbyAnne http://www.residualforces.com/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31629 GumbyAnne Sat, 06 Jan 2007 00:20:20 +0000 http://www.residualforces.com/http:/residualforces.com/index.php/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31629 For most of us living in Minnesota who are actually familiar with Ellison's record, all of this outrage seems a little over-the-top. Before anyone gets bent out of shape, I hope they take the time to look into Rep. Ellison's record and some of the other details of his life. You can't pin him with "Muslims want to convert or kill everyone." The biggest piece of evidence for this is that his wife is not even a Muslim. Nor are his siblings or his parents. It is pure alarmism to say that someone who won't force is religion on his wife is going to force it on the rest of us. The fact that some Muslims are oppressive of women, homosexuals and Jews is undisputed, but you cannot possibly implicate Rep. Ellison in this. In fact, he has made his name here in Minnesota politics by standing up for gay rights and women's reproductive rights at every opportunity in the state house of representatives. Also, he received the endorsement of the biggest Jewish newspaper in MN, even though his republican opponent was a Jew. Rep. Ellison has never held office in the middle east and so he can not be held responsible for abuses of those governments. Where he HAS held office is here in MN, and I can assure you it is quite a nice place to live. Come for a visit sometime and witness that despite the 3 terms he has served in our legislature, we are still quite free of sharia law. In fact, Minneapolis (his district) is consistently listed as one of the top 3 most livable cities in the US, MN is the best state for overall health, and Minneapolis is one of the most gay-friendly cities in the US. Ellison hasn't run our state into the ground yet, and we have no reason to think he will do so with the whole nation. You can disagree with his politics and that is fine, but to try to portray him as a screaming reactionary jihadist who wants to hurl us back into the 7th century is just dishonest. For most of us living in Minnesota who are actually familiar with Ellison’s record, all of this outrage seems a little over-the-top.

Before anyone gets bent out of shape, I hope they take the time to look into Rep. Ellison’s record and some of the other details of his life.

You can’t pin him with “Muslims want to convert or kill everyone.” The biggest piece of evidence for this is that his wife is not even a Muslim. Nor are his siblings or his parents. It is pure alarmism to say that someone who won’t force is religion on his wife is going to force it on the rest of us.

The fact that some Muslims are oppressive of women, homosexuals and Jews is undisputed, but you cannot possibly implicate Rep. Ellison in this. In fact, he has made his name here in Minnesota politics by standing up for gay rights and women’s reproductive rights at every opportunity in the state house of representatives. Also, he received the endorsement of the biggest Jewish newspaper in MN, even though his republican opponent was a Jew.

Rep. Ellison has never held office in the middle east and so he can not be held responsible for abuses of those governments. Where he HAS held office is here in MN, and I can assure you it is quite a nice place to live. Come for a visit sometime and witness that despite the 3 terms he has served in our legislature, we are still quite free of sharia law. In fact, Minneapolis (his district) is consistently listed as one of the top 3 most livable cities in the US, MN is the best state for overall health, and Minneapolis is one of the most gay-friendly cities in the US. Ellison hasn’t run our state into the ground yet, and we have no reason to think he will do so with the whole nation.

You can disagree with his politics and that is fine, but to try to portray him as a screaming reactionary jihadist who wants to hurl us back into the 7th century is just dishonest.

]]> By: coco http://www.residualforces.com/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31567 coco Fri, 05 Jan 2007 13:39:05 +0000 http://www.residualforces.com/http:/residualforces.com/index.php/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31567 About wife beating in Islam: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544256 You can read if you want to know. Thanks. About wife beating in Islam:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544256

You can read if you want to know. Thanks.

]]> By: mpopham http://www.residualforces.com/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31106 mpopham Thu, 28 Dec 2006 23:27:39 +0000 http://www.residualforces.com/http:/residualforces.com/index.php/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31106 So you're saying you've read the Quran? The whole thing? Because your post suggested you'd only read an article ABOUT the Quran. So you’re saying you’ve read the Quran?

The whole thing?

Because your post suggested you’d only read an article ABOUT the Quran.

]]> By: Andy http://www.residualforces.com/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31101 Andy Thu, 28 Dec 2006 22:58:12 +0000 http://www.residualforces.com/http:/residualforces.com/index.php/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31101 Fine, then I'll just continue to go about my life uninformed of all the wonders that are Islam since no Muslim is willing to tell me about them. Maybe it isn't much different than the book afterall. Fine, then I’ll just continue to go about my life uninformed of all the wonders that are Islam since no Muslim is willing to tell me about them.
Maybe it isn’t much different than the book afterall.

]]> By: mpopham http://www.residualforces.com/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31098 mpopham Thu, 28 Dec 2006 22:06:21 +0000 http://www.residualforces.com/http:/residualforces.com/index.php/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31098 Your argument is nonsensical. It just collapses under its own weight. Ellison is under no obligation to do any of the things you’re demanding. Your argument is nonsensical. It just collapses under its own weight. Ellison is under no obligation to do any of the things you’re demanding.

]]> By: Andy http://www.residualforces.com/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31094 Andy Thu, 28 Dec 2006 21:54:38 +0000 http://www.residualforces.com/http:/residualforces.com/index.php/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31094 Religious Test? BS! He's the one using his new power as a member of Congress as a way for his religion to "educate" us Americans. That's what the speech he gave in Detroit was about. He sounded a hell of a lot like a religious leader there to me, more than a member of Congress. And why is it that he hasn't been giving speeches here in MN's 5th? But rather galavanting round the country to one Muslim fundraiser to another? Was he elected to Rep MN's 5th, or All American Muslims or those within America? And if Ellison is preaching for his followers to educate ME, why shouldn't I be able to ask him to explain his religion? See, unlike you, I presume who is Liberal, I don't demand Government answer all my questions, I, Me, AAA, am demanding Ellison do it. I hope others feel the same, and enough pressure is put on him publicly and by the media (laugh) that he does have to explain himself, because so far he has been getting away scot free. Oh, and go check the original post I made, I didn't say he shouldn't use it, what I said that when he does, WE should be aware what is in that book. Pay attention! Religious Test? BS! He’s the one using his new power as a member of Congress as a way for his religion to “educate” us Americans. That’s what the speech he gave in Detroit was about. He sounded a hell of a lot like a religious leader there to me, more than a member of Congress. And why is it that he hasn’t been giving speeches here in MN’s 5th? But rather galavanting round the country to one Muslim fundraiser to another? Was he elected to Rep MN’s 5th, or All American Muslims or those within America?

And if Ellison is preaching for his followers to educate ME, why shouldn’t I be able to ask him to explain his religion? See, unlike you, I presume who is Liberal, I don’t demand Government answer all my questions, I, Me, AAA, am demanding Ellison do it. I hope others feel the same, and enough pressure is put on him publicly and by the media (laugh) that he does have to explain himself, because so far he has been getting away scot free.

Oh, and go check the original post I made, I didn’t say he shouldn’t use it, what I said that when he does, WE should be aware what is in that book. Pay attention!

]]> By: mpopham http://www.residualforces.com/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31092 mpopham Thu, 28 Dec 2006 21:03:46 +0000 http://www.residualforces.com/http:/residualforces.com/index.php/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31092 "That’s all he’d have to do. Come out and publicly state that he doesn’t believe in Sharia law and that it has no place in the US, let alone have someone propose laws (as a member of Congress) that would mirror Islamic laws from other Nations?" No, Andy, he doesn't have to do it. What you're proposing is a religious test for holding office -- expressly forbidden by the Constitution. He's been elected by the voters in the 5th district. They are the ones who decide whether he's fit to serve -- not you. Once in Congress, I suppose he could propose any nutty thing he wanted. That's his right as well. And it would be the right of his peers in Congress to vote his proposals up or down. And it would be the right of his constituents to vote him out of office in two years if they so desired. That's democracy, buddy. That's how it works. As I have already stated, the oath he will take is to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. Not to protect and defend the Quran, or anything in it. Not to protect and defend the Bible, or anything in that either. Holding a religious text in your hand during the swearing-in ceremony does not negate, impede, undermine or in any way weaken that oath of office. Your argument is nonsensical. It just collapses under its own weight. Ellison is under no obligation to do any of the things you're demanding. “That’s all he’d have to do. Come out and publicly state that he doesn’t believe in Sharia law and that it has no place in the US, let alone have someone propose laws (as a member of Congress) that would mirror Islamic laws from other Nations?”

No, Andy, he doesn’t have to do it. What you’re proposing is a religious test for holding office — expressly forbidden by the Constitution. He’s been elected by the voters in the 5th district. They are the ones who decide whether he’s fit to serve — not you.

Once in Congress, I suppose he could propose any nutty thing he wanted. That’s his right as well. And it would be the right of his peers in Congress to vote his proposals up or down. And it would be the right of his constituents to vote him out of office in two years if they so desired.

That’s democracy, buddy. That’s how it works.

As I have already stated, the oath he will take is to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. Not to protect and defend the Quran, or anything in it. Not to protect and defend the Bible, or anything in that either. Holding a religious text in your hand during the swearing-in ceremony does not negate, impede, undermine or in any way weaken that oath of office.

Your argument is nonsensical. It just collapses under its own weight. Ellison is under no obligation to do any of the things you’re demanding.

]]> By: Andy http://www.residualforces.com/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31086 Andy Thu, 28 Dec 2006 19:24:19 +0000 http://www.residualforces.com/http:/residualforces.com/index.php/2006/12/26/keith-and-his-koran/#comment-31086 For the last 230 or so years people have been using the Bible, and how many times has the Mosaic laws you mention been used? More importantly, recently? But we DO have people saying that in order to be good Muslims you have to follow Sharia law. Is Ellison a good Muslim? Leaders of the Muslim faith are out there demanding their laws be followed. When Americans go to their lands they are forced to follow their laws. As they should, but many are derived from or out of the Koran. I am wondering why it bothers you so that one would raise the question of what exactly is in that book Ellison wants to be the first to use for such a reason. Why is it such a problem that someone raise questions or concerns of a man with such a questionable history? He has defended cop killers. He has been less than forth coming about why he didn't pay taxes. He has lived a life that seems less than impeccable, and leaves room for doubt of his intentions. Why does it bother you so to ask him to say whether or not he believes everything in the Koran. I don't believe everything in the Bible, I can say that about my religious book, why can't he? That's all he'd have to do. Come out and publicly state that he doesn't believe in Sharia law and that it has no place in the US, let alone have someone propose laws (as a member of Congress) that would mirror Islamic laws from other Nations? The proof of how the Koran is being used to wage a Jihad is clear, it should be those who feel it is such an important part of their life to educate us. That is what he says Muslims should do to Americans. Well, why doesn't he practice what he preaches? What can I learn from the Koran that isn't written in it? Sharia law is written in their, is that the part I am supposed to learn? Regarding the oath verbiage will he say "God"? Or will he say "Alah"? Do we know? For the last 230 or so years people have been using the Bible, and how many times has the Mosaic laws you mention been used? More importantly, recently?

But we DO have people saying that in order to be good Muslims you have to follow Sharia law. Is Ellison a good Muslim? Leaders of the Muslim faith are out there demanding their laws be followed. When Americans go to their lands they are forced to follow their laws. As they should, but many are derived from or out of the Koran.

I am wondering why it bothers you so that one would raise the question of what exactly is in that book Ellison wants to be the first to use for such a reason. Why is it such a problem that someone raise questions or concerns of a man with such a questionable history? He has defended cop killers. He has been less than forth coming about why he didn’t pay taxes. He has lived a life that seems less than impeccable, and leaves room for doubt of his intentions.

Why does it bother you so to ask him to say whether or not he believes everything in the Koran. I don’t believe everything in the Bible, I can say that about my religious book, why can’t he? That’s all he’d have to do. Come out and publicly state that he doesn’t believe in Sharia law and that it has no place in the US, let alone have someone propose laws (as a member of Congress) that would mirror Islamic laws from other Nations?

The proof of how the Koran is being used to wage a Jihad is clear, it should be those who feel it is such an important part of their life to educate us. That is what he says Muslims should do to Americans. Well, why doesn’t he practice what he preaches?

What can I learn from the Koran that isn’t written in it? Sharia law is written in their, is that the part I am supposed to learn?

Regarding the oath verbiage will he say “God”? Or will he say “Alah”? Do we know?

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